![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
tylikSo I've been thinking a little about this article, and my own views on economics, which have been coming up a bit more recently with the nose dive and flopping around like a dying salmon that the economy has been doing this last bit. Just so y'all know... I was originally going for a double major in Chinese and International Political Economics* (it was all the Central Asian stuff that got in the way - I am pretty close to finishing both other degrees, but there was no way I was going to get a triple major in four years and keep myself fed, even if I did come out of it with an obscene number of credits**). The poli-econ was through the Jackson School - read neo-Marxists international policy geeks, not free market idealogue econ professors. Though for that matter, I've met a lot of pretty liberal econ professors.
Anyhow, today, while showering (it's a better story with a shower scene, right?) I was thinking about the pull between a more socialist, more regulated economy and a freer market. And I was thinking how historically, if you have a massively underdeveloped country and want to modernize in a hurry, there's a lot to be said for a more socialist central economy. (This isn't a vote for Leninism, or Maoism on say, civil liberties or ethical grounds. In fact, catch me in the right mood and you can really get an earful about my undergraduate research, and Maoism. However, compare China's experience to, say, that of much of Africa? Makes an argument for a central economy, don't it?) On the other hand, once you start to plateau there's a hell of a lot to be said for adopting freer markets (and I would argue a more open and democratic society) so that one can take advantage of market efficiencies***. From that point on, a well managed country is likely, I think, to exist in some kind of dynamic equilibrium between the pull towards more unfettered capitalism, and the pull towards more careful management, more centralized social spending, etc.
I'm fine with that. I have some pretty strong socialist tendencies (for an USA^, ^^), but I'm not at all against looking into market solutions for even things like education and health care... assuming they address both the needs of individuals and society reasonably fairly. (United States fails pretty drastically by this standard. But I could imagine situations in which, say, education became both more public in some ways and more private in others.) And assuming they'll be held accountable.
Anyhow, back to the shower. So there I am, naked and wet, rinsing off some of the awesome soap![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
gryphonwing sent me, and thinking about how a socialist country might better manage that transition, the easing back of direct government control of many industries, etc. etc. - because if there's a way to get the job done without either violence or chaos, it would seem to be advantageous. And it finally hit me that what I was thinking about was *clearly* the "withering away of the state".
Okay, obviously not what Engels had in mind. (Again, for those of you without similar backgrounds... the "withering away of the state" has mostly been the punchline to jokes in this part of my world. And having the centralized economy - they were really was talking about ethics more than they were talking practical economics - wither away into a more capitalist society... heh. I guess it's still a punchline.)
* I wanted to work for the state department. I... well, I'm not a big one for regret, and I really like my current life a lot (though the spine injury? not so much) but I still feel pangs when I think about that set of other paths. And sometimes I think half of the reason I want to pick up a clinical degree is so that I can volunteer with Doctors Without Borders... preferably in Northern Afghanistan (I speak Uzbek, one of the major languages, and Tajik, another, is related - or I used to speak Uzbek, anyway, and so far my experience is that these things come back). (And then I can teach martial arts to women in my spare time. Because if I'm going to get myself killed, I want to have a lot of fun in the process.) I also sometimes wonder if I might gravitate towards international science policy.
** I graduated with around 250 credits. Yes, okay, the summer language intensive habit contributed substantially to that.
*** I kind of want to choke for using this term, because it is such a point of *religion* among free market idealogues. There's no such thing as a free market, and there are a lot of situations in which a "free" market will breed terribly inefficiencies. (The canonical example being in the case of monopolies. For more involved, but real world examples, may I direct your attention to both health care - where we spend more per capita than anywhere else, and yet receive a lower standard of care than most industrialized countries - and advertising. Dear gods, wouldn't the market be healthier for not sending me all this junk mail?!! It is not effective at getting me to buy more stuff.)
^ When my father was in Hungary, many years ago, people referred to US citizens as USAs - "oosahs", I believe. Far more precise than "Americans".
^^ It has been bitterly amusing to watch conservatives rail against the current "bailout" (which is, I think, in many ways a pretty poor appelation) as evidence of socialism while at the same time hearing vaguely socialist types railing against (in effect, if I follow what they're saying) as an excess of plutocracy.
There is something that greatly tempers my socialist tendencies - I've spent a lot of time studying the economic history of the last century (and a fair bit of the last millenia). With something of a focus on "communist" china, but to a lesser extent on many of the other failures of socialism. (As well as the successes of socialism.) I don't think I'm entirely lacking in idealism. But I am not an idealist in a way that makes me think it's okay - or at least not my fault - for lots and lots of people to die or to live horrible lives. In some ways this makes me one hell of a moderate. In other ways, I guess, something of an extremist. Do you ever notice how many liberal utopian visions are founded on having the majority of the planet's population just die off in some horrible way that no one could have avoided?
Anyhow, today, while showering (it's a better story with a shower scene, right?) I was thinking about the pull between a more socialist, more regulated economy and a freer market. And I was thinking how historically, if you have a massively underdeveloped country and want to modernize in a hurry, there's a lot to be said for a more socialist central economy. (This isn't a vote for Leninism, or Maoism on say, civil liberties or ethical grounds. In fact, catch me in the right mood and you can really get an earful about my undergraduate research, and Maoism. However, compare China's experience to, say, that of much of Africa? Makes an argument for a central economy, don't it?) On the other hand, once you start to plateau there's a hell of a lot to be said for adopting freer markets (and I would argue a more open and democratic society) so that one can take advantage of market efficiencies***. From that point on, a well managed country is likely, I think, to exist in some kind of dynamic equilibrium between the pull towards more unfettered capitalism, and the pull towards more careful management, more centralized social spending, etc.
I'm fine with that. I have some pretty strong socialist tendencies (for an USA^, ^^), but I'm not at all against looking into market solutions for even things like education and health care... assuming they address both the needs of individuals and society reasonably fairly. (United States fails pretty drastically by this standard. But I could imagine situations in which, say, education became both more public in some ways and more private in others.) And assuming they'll be held accountable.
Anyhow, back to the shower. So there I am, naked and wet, rinsing off some of the awesome soap
gryphonwing sent me, and thinking about how a socialist country might better manage that transition, the easing back of direct government control of many industries, etc. etc. - because if there's a way to get the job done without either violence or chaos, it would seem to be advantageous. And it finally hit me that what I was thinking about was *clearly* the "withering away of the state".Okay, obviously not what Engels had in mind. (Again, for those of you without similar backgrounds... the "withering away of the state" has mostly been the punchline to jokes in this part of my world. And having the centralized economy - they were really was talking about ethics more than they were talking practical economics - wither away into a more capitalist society... heh. I guess it's still a punchline.)
* I wanted to work for the state department. I... well, I'm not a big one for regret, and I really like my current life a lot (though the spine injury? not so much) but I still feel pangs when I think about that set of other paths. And sometimes I think half of the reason I want to pick up a clinical degree is so that I can volunteer with Doctors Without Borders... preferably in Northern Afghanistan (I speak Uzbek, one of the major languages, and Tajik, another, is related - or I used to speak Uzbek, anyway, and so far my experience is that these things come back). (And then I can teach martial arts to women in my spare time. Because if I'm going to get myself killed, I want to have a lot of fun in the process.) I also sometimes wonder if I might gravitate towards international science policy.
** I graduated with around 250 credits. Yes, okay, the summer language intensive habit contributed substantially to that.
*** I kind of want to choke for using this term, because it is such a point of *religion* among free market idealogues. There's no such thing as a free market, and there are a lot of situations in which a "free" market will breed terribly inefficiencies. (The canonical example being in the case of monopolies. For more involved, but real world examples, may I direct your attention to both health care - where we spend more per capita than anywhere else, and yet receive a lower standard of care than most industrialized countries - and advertising. Dear gods, wouldn't the market be healthier for not sending me all this junk mail?!! It is not effective at getting me to buy more stuff.)
^ When my father was in Hungary, many years ago, people referred to US citizens as USAs - "oosahs", I believe. Far more precise than "Americans".
^^ It has been bitterly amusing to watch conservatives rail against the current "bailout" (which is, I think, in many ways a pretty poor appelation) as evidence of socialism while at the same time hearing vaguely socialist types railing against (in effect, if I follow what they're saying) as an excess of plutocracy.
There is something that greatly tempers my socialist tendencies - I've spent a lot of time studying the economic history of the last century (and a fair bit of the last millenia). With something of a focus on "communist" china, but to a lesser extent on many of the other failures of socialism. (As well as the successes of socialism.) I don't think I'm entirely lacking in idealism. But I am not an idealist in a way that makes me think it's okay - or at least not my fault - for lots and lots of people to die or to live horrible lives. In some ways this makes me one hell of a moderate. In other ways, I guess, something of an extremist. Do you ever notice how many liberal utopian visions are founded on having the majority of the planet's population just die off in some horrible way that no one could have avoided?
